Intro Music

Tyler Finn 

From pro athlete to substitute teacher to legal tech today on the Abstract I am joined by Emmanuel Smith, a former NFL linebacker turned substitute teacher and legal tech professional, who brings a really unique perspective on pushing forward, having the right mindset, embracing resilience. Emmanuel and I met at clock. He showed me his NFL champion Super Bowl ring, and I realized I had to have this guy on the podcast. He's someone who's moved, you know, from the football field to the classroom now to sales roles. We're going to talk today about how he's turned no's and pivots into opportunities, chance to be better, a chance to give back. We're also going to talk a little bit about his journey with mental health and how he's been able to reinvent himself and leverage his support system to embrace, really, all that his personal and professional lives have to offer. So with that, Emmanuel, welcome to this episode of the Abstract.

Emmanuel Smith 

No thank you so much for inviting me out. I'm excited to be able to talk with you and just share some nuggets, hopefully we add people's life a little better.

Tyler Finn

Absolutely. Okay, let's start with your career as a pro athlete, something that has had a few sort of twists and turns or or winding ways to it. But you know you were, you were a pro football player. Talk to us a little bit about, you know what? What inspired you to play football? Why you decided to go pro? Give us a short overview of your career.

Emmanuel Smith 

Yeah, no. So guess what? Originally didn't play a football, probably since the age of four, so kind of got thrown in early. Big bobblehead. You see kids running around now with a help, and we're trying. Help, and we're trying to you see kids running when the head goes one way, the body is soon to follow. So football me, my brother both played football growing up. My dad played in college as well. And then, as you kind of got older, we figured out, like, Hey, we're pretty good at this. Like, do we want to play in high school, but in high school and the next steps, like, all right, there's a video game, and was the college football game, so my brother should play that, like, faithfully every night, like sneaking up to upstairs. How to play the video game our parents to sleep. Like, that was our jam. And then we realized, like, oh, we have a chance to actually be on the video game. So I'm like, oh, we gotta go for it. So that originally inspired us to actually want to go play college football, was just to have the chance to be on the video game, to say, hey, look, Mom Dad, we made up the video game. This is super cool. Yeah. And so we sought out. It was really focused on like, Hey, can we get the big enough school or our name is recognized as, like, Alright, perfect. We did it into college. We both, we both photographed those together, and have a lot of fun playing there. But we get in, and so they get in, they stopped making the video game. So they were like, You gotta be kidding me. Like, that was our dreams. Like, I gotta go. So I stopped making the video game real. Like, well, I guess it's another we can try to go for. So we still surely started trying to pivot it, like, how can we make it to Madden? So that kind of was what inspired the journey to allow my brother wanted to actually go play football. Along that journey, we learned a lot about ourselves, but teams the good people, bad culture, good culture. How can I survive in those things that we could apply to our life.

Tyler Finn 

Talk to me a little bit, yeah, about the mindset that's required, Pro and the sort of discipline that that's required. I'm sure you have to make it, you know, in many ways, like your whole life.

Emmanuel Smith 

Ya know, it's one of those things. It's funny looking back at it now, it's like, how do you go to play pro? And I tell people, you got to have a little bit of iron luck along that journey, because it's not just you right, like it's timing and everything else. You got to put a lot of working on the front end. So that's who we got, coming to college, you know, like, okay, cool, going to college. I know you had to keep your grades up to play in college football, right? You don't keep a good GPA, you are on academics probation. Get in on that. So I learn like hey, your grades are important. You know, it Is a more of a mental game. Like, as you start getting up to the higher levels of sports, it becomes a lot more mental, because the talent level is, I mean, you'll have your few freaks of nature that you'll see, like, man God made you for this sport. Like, you're just blessed. A lot of this is mental. It's like, how can you handle the mental the mental battle between your mom, between the game, between the sudden shifts, and like being able to hone those things in so you continue to propel yourself forward, to put you in a good spot to go and play professionally. So we're in college, there's one thing that we got to really learn. I think my freshman year, I struggle with that a lot, because coming from high school to freshman year college, I was used to being the big fish in a little pond, and then I got to ocean, I'm like, dang, I'm not the big fish no more, right? So how's the fan? How do you juggle that? Like balance all those things? I was all lost. So my strength coach, Coach Dobson, actually, he noticed this. He gave me a book called The Mental Edge early on, like my first year, and I read that book, and it helped me so much about, like, I use those principles filter to say, but talk about how, like, positive affirmation, self-talk, all these things that we hear about that you see on movies and all this other stuff that sounds cool. Well, he gave me this book, and I started reading. I was like, I need to do these things. And from my sophomore year, probably to my senior year, I really was using everything he told me in that book that book that I read to help propel myself full but mentally be sharp, because I realized I didn't have the mental game part down. I was gonna I was gonna fail. I was no matter how good athlete I was, if I could understand a playbook or understand the moments in the game, I wasn't gonna tell myself for I was stuck. That right? There was a huge shift. And then you get into pro, you see it even more when the pro levels, like, they're meticulous about it. They have like, hey, Monday, Tuesday, we're doing this. Wednesday. We're going over third down, first down second. Now, whatever you want to call it, breaking it down, the film, but like, segments and then sections and like, Hey, here's the top three plays at this out of this formation that teams run like, This is who you go and you see like your vets, which is really cool to see they've been in the league for a while. They'll have playbooks like, they're all notes from a whole OC this office of coordinators been here, here, here, here, here's his resume, here's his play breakdown film. So we go into the game, it's like, how can we be react? Be proactive, not reactive? For the mental side of things, is a lot more than people realize when it comes to playing, playing pro sports.

Tyler Finn 

If you look back on your career, your professional football career is the Super Bowl ring, the thing that you're most proud of, or is it something else? What are you most proud of accomplishing?

Emmanuel Smith 

As far as, like, things that I've seen, the Super Bowl ring Yes, probably the most proud accomplishment, because it's pretty cool to say you have one of those people. It's not easy to come by. Yeah. Like, my most proud accomplishment was actually being able to make it in the NFL, but also build relationships to be able to impact people. I think that was probably the coolest thing, because I'll get messages from time to time, but like, Hey, you don't remember me. But like, we were in high school, and like, you talked to me about these things, and like I was just kind of like, this a random kid that didn't know you, but you were given a lot. You actually took time to spend with me. It impacted me tear my door, right? That's like, oh, that's dope. I didn't know. Like, bro, if you go out, you still meet people here the community and like, being able to have that really the impact on a broader scale, I think, is absolutely one of my favorite things about being able to play professional sports is to have that impact on people outside of the arena.

Tyler Finn 

I think that's really a thread as we were prepping like your your ability to have a positive impact on the people around you, something that really drives you and motivates you. You also shared with me that you know, especially sort of towards the end of your time in the NFL, as you were transitioning out, that was really tough, right? Like having to, having to let go of that career and think about something new. Can you talk us through that time, and sort of how you came out the other side, and how you found meaning actually working with a bunch of kids as a teacher?

Emmanuel Smith

No, for sure. So, oh yeah, I guess all my life, I've always told people, like, growing up, hey, not just the football players. I always tell people, all right, because, like, I believe that deep down, but we were playing football from age of four to about 27 28 your entire life, and it's been a part of your entire life. So I got into the league my first time ever getting told like, Hey, you're not good enough to play this game anymore. It was my rookie year when I was in Atlanta, and I was like, whoa. Like, what? Yeah, I I'm not getting us to continue to play the sport that I've been playing my entire life and I've been pretty good at. And now, right there, hit me hard, because I remember we called the guy to Grim Reaper. He came in. He's like, Hey, we got to go to the front office and just bring your op ed. We're gonna turn some things in. I'm like, okay, they give you a black duffle bag, but a black garbage bag, and you start packing all your stuff in a black garbage bag. You fill it up your shoulder, go to your car, you know, wherever you go, and like, you pack it up, and you drive, oh, and on that drive home, that's the first time I remember I was in the car. I was crying all the way home from Atlanta to, Tennessee, because I was like, I didn't know I was lost. Like, who am I? Like, football was not who I was, but like, when it got taken away from me, not by my choice. I was like, it was who I was. I my identity was so deeply enriched in football and like, that's who I am. And I was such, like, like, a badge of honor that I was wearing that I didn't even finally get Earth off me. Man, did it hurt, and I went to like I guess, led to the season of my mental health struggles. I was not on depression, suicidal thoughts. I mean, I thought I failed in life. I didn't want to go anywhere. I went back home, and all I did go work out in the gym when nobody was working out. So I tried to go back in middle of day, when everybody's in when everybody's at work and kids are in school. I would do work, come back home, and I would just sit in my room, my parents room, while, I guess, my childhood room. I would talk nobody. I wasn't smiling. I really didn't care about life. I was like Mayor. I feel everything that I supposed to do in my life, right? Why do I need to go out and even talk to people or be seen, right? Nobody cares. And so it was, it was rough. I was, I was in a really bad in the bass, fine. My dad knows this because, you know, I think it's cool and your parents have perspective, or people who've been a little bit farther ahead, you always have perspective. Yeah, he broke his neck twice in college, so he went down similar path, but he lost, lost his sport came back, and it happened again, maybe down from the path like it was darkness and destruction was kind of just the path that he was set on. Somebody had to pull him aside, and so he told me the same thing. He's like, look, I don't know what you need to do, but you gotta get out the house. He's like, go become a substitute teacher. Go do something, but get out of this house, because you stay here where your life holds head to was not, it's not gonna be a great spot, right? And all kinds, like, alright, dad, whatever you know. Like, alright, yeah, you totally, I tell you the hearts I went there, I became a substitute teacher. And power to teachers everywhere, because that is not easy. So I was getting substantive teacher. But obviously I work in such a teacher was born like it was cool, as flexible. If I ever got called, Go, get back up. I can leave every job I'm done. But the main reasons like, I wanted to go and impact kids like I wanted them to know, like, hey, maybe college isn't for you. Maybe we'll do a trade job, or maybe that's not for you. Maybe we'll be doing their own business, right? There's a bunch of different things that you can do in your life that you can still go be successful in. There might not be the norm. So like, if you get so caught up and it's like I got through everybody else is doing, a lot of times, you lose your passion and your your dream, because that's not what you wanted to do. So I wanted the kids to know like, hey, go dream bigs, people still do care about you, right? And I feel a lot of times, the younger generation kind of feels lost, because they feel like I got social media, nothing that you get back to them, but like they got their own so I want to know that, you know, people still do care about you, right, like, and I want you to know that, and suddenly there's substitute teaching. I don't tell them anything about my background, like nothing comes out. This was Smith. Here your homework are your classroom today. Let's do this. You have any questions, please come ask me. And we talked about it, and I'm probably I'm there for about solid three months substitute teaching, and the kids started to figure out, like, Hey, you play in the pro football I was like, Yeah, talk about that today. And then they got around the entire school. So every day for about two and a half months, excuse me, it went on. They were like, Hey, can you talk about football? Now? I'm like, No, while we're doing and they finally broke me down. You have kids. You've been around kids, you know, like they are going to ask you the question, until that question is answered, you feel like it's sufficient enough, and then they finally got some broken down. Okay, look, y'all do your classwork and you have time next year, we'll sit down talk about what my journey was. I mean, I didn't know that the impact that those kids and I told my may save my life transparently, because fun that I was things like, it was like, Man, if I got gone today, nobody really know. I never really care, because, like, I didn't do that. Supposed to do in my head. And those kids, when they he's put a whole new perspective to me, they're like, Dude, you make you made it. Like, how you do this? Like, of course, I didn't accomplish all the things I wanted to accomplish was, like, you still had it, yeah, you're you still played in the stadium, like, You got to be around these people and like all the other stuff. And I was like, Man, I guess I really did do a lot of cool things. And I realized, like, I wasn't a failure, yeah, biggest thing the kids taught me was like, your perspective drives your reality. And my perspective, I was like, I don't care, but I talked to them, I left. I got a call, actually, ironically, so fierce talk to these kids have great time. So teachers, I got a call to go back and got good chance to play in Tampa Bay. So I get a call. That whole drive was crazy in itself, too, because I was flying from Nashville to Chicago to go do a workout with the bears. I got off plane there outside the airport, they like, hey, ready to pick you up and come take you to the hotel do your physical. All that I get off the plane, my agent calls me. He's like, Hey, you left the airport yet? I'm like, no. He's like, get back on the plane. You're going to Tampa Bay. Now. I'm like, so then he turned around, told him, sorry, I gotta go talk to get on the planet. Ran out back to Tampa, to Tampa Bay, and I got down there like my my whole perspective was like, I don't care if I get cut today, if I get cut tomorrow, I am grateful for the opportunity that I have, and I'm gonna smile and laugh be my home, who I usually always am myself the rest of my time playing pro sports. And I did so every practice, every day, everything I was doing, every game, was always me laughing, me having a good time and smiling. And I actually started to really and find the love of the game again, because I lost another for a while. And yeah, that right there. This kid brought that perspective. Back to me there. I do like you didn't feel it right, like you still done a lot of things that most people dream without being able to do. And I've told kids on my social media before, right? Look, y'all, I want to help you guys more than y'all know, but you guys saved my life more than you guys know. The impact you get on me was so much bigger I probably did for you guys. And it's cool because, like, some of the kids now reach out, but like, Hey, I'm doing this now. I won't let you go like I'm doing well, I love it. I got it. Just lights me up. Just hearing other people's life become better than pursuing their dreams, something that was really big for me, because I when you lose that idea of hope and the dream and everything else once you once you refine it again, it's like I'm lit on fire. I want everybody else to be able to have that same passion and excitement for their own lives.

Tyler Finn  

I want to thank you for sharing your story. You know, I'm sure time, time makes it easier, right? But like talking about when things were tough and how you come out the other side easy. So I want to thank you for sharing it with with us. You know. I mean, do you feel like that different perspective also actually made you a better player and made, you know, made that sort of second act as a professional football player possible. Like, was it the shift in perspective that made all of that really, really happen?

Emmanuel Smith 

Yes, no, I do. I think the shipping perspective from those kids. I mean, it changed a lot of how I saw everything, but honestly, I was ready to hang the cleats up just as we go find a random job. Didn't know what it was gonna be, but I just found something because I didn't do anything else, like what I want to do, I didn't accomplish. And the deadline perspective, it was like, Dude, you are here. You have air in your lungs, you have fun, and you went through a tough season, and like through that tough season, you overcame a lot of things, like the barrel, the struggles that you face are not just for you. A lot of times, they're for somebody else who you'll probably talk to or come in contact with, and are struggling with those same things underneath the surface. And once they hear how you overcame a lot of times, it gives them victory, for them to go out and achieve in their life too, as well, right? And so they may. I'm here. I'm having fun, I'm running to the ball, I'm doing everything I can to enjoy this moment and be present where I'm at, because I know it's not guaranteed for the next day. I gotta never know what's gonna happen next. And that carried out through football. Every team I went to, it was always funny, because I had a I got 1000 different nicknames. So I go by Smitty, very always team I was on have different nicknames for so when I was with the cheese is actually fun, because I was here, and I love this organization that they have here and be great, what they all accomplish. But it was club. Ever spent Nola DC. We were just kind of walking in the hallway one day, and he was like, sweetie, I've ever told you, this is what you come in every day with a smile on your face and your laugh and you're always happy. And he was like, when I walk in the building, I can count on seeing your face in order to be happy and smiling, that much better fun to work with, right? And I was like, Yeah, I love it, right? Because, like, yeah, they didn't know the season I had when it was, like, you saw me, it was straight face, frown, like hat, oh, and glasses covered eyes, like they didn't know that season. They just know the season that they see. Now it's like, he's always happy, good attitude and good energy, and it makes me fun to be around. And that was probably one of the coolest things I've ever he just, we just walk in one cool conversation. She's like, you're like, just your spirit, man is contagious, and we want you to like, You're doing a great job, like, just lighting the room up. So, like, Okay, this is this the perspective from the kids really shifted a lot, and allowed me, I think a lot of times we'll play a little bit longer. I probably would have, yeah, I think that, you know, as I left the Chiefs got cut, I injury settled. I think this might be, might be the time, and I was told, I tell young guys now they still, to this day, who are still playing her account on the bubble, their line that I was doing, I was like, would chase the dream, but don't chase the dream so long. It becomes a nightmare, right? Because he can. This is pro sports, so, but it takes a dream. Have fun living it out. Like for me, what I did, I got cut. Always set a set of cut off date for myself, which is always a year after I get cut, if I don't hear anything back, any workouts for a year, 95 that means like, Hey, it's your time is probably coming to a close, because it is the, it's the young man's game that expands up. So I said that your date my last time getting cut. And I was like, this is, this is where it's at. This is the line in the sand. And I remember it was actually around my birthday. And I remember about two days out, all right, I'm gonna get some, you know, type it up. However, hey, I'm retired from the game speed, right? You know, the post on social media like, you know, the close that chapter, and I'm a man of faith. So I think it was one of those just God things that two days before my actual date I was gonna post everything, I got a call to go play again. All right? This must be a sign for me to go play again. And I was playing the XFL at this point in time, just to kind of like, show them out healthy again, right? So having a lot of fun. Never mind. I told God that point my laptop was like, Look, I'll play the game. Give him a one last shot. But this is not for me. I want to go to an environment to where I can actually be a light to allow your guys, because the things that I came to the league, that I seen and saw, and it's some of the things that I didn't get great perspective to say, like how to go about life, right, and some of those things I just really appreciate. So how can I help other guys, young men, who are coming into that season in life actually better and not have to struggle, maybe as much as God did with just anything off the field and even on the field. And I think he put me, he answered that prayer by opening that door, put me right in the place where I needed to be, and I was able to meet it was the XFL. It was funny. The unique thing lived in a hotel. Fuck your own cog. Yeah, grown man. But allowing us to get really close, right? Allows to actually impact other people. So we said, Every morning we have breakfast and like, we should be talking about life, right? And they're asking, like, young, 2122 year old guy, start figuring out how to go play pro ball and navigate this stuff. Like, hey, like we talked to you. Can we pick your brain? Like, I've been able to impart actually good seeds into their like, Hey, don't fall for this foolishness that you know that you you see the lifestyle, it looks glamorous a lot of times, like, it's not what you want to be, right? I guess a lot of turmoil behind those doors you don't see. I thought, like, do you want to be stats? Like, 85% of professional athletes in the divorce are there in divorce. I have multiple, multiple and I was like, you don't want to do all those statistics. Like, that's the best statistic. You don't want to be one of those. So here's the thing you needed to focus on, how you manage those things, and even, like, when it comes to money, I think, like, you like, a good portion too, as well, become bankrupt seven years after calling him, because they're still spending the money like they were earning no more, right? So, like, a lot of the things, like, Hey, you make a lot of money, where you're really young, but that money is is quick, it's good amount, but it can often really quickly. You don't know how to spend it, right? So I wanted to give them a lot of perspective that I wished I got coming as a rookie. And yes, so that was probably one of my, one of the hotlines of being able to talk to those guys. Now I'm seeing some of those guys get played in the NFL, get picked up, no play in the fail, someone's still playing. But I'm able to like, Hey, I'm taking the thing you said. I'm getting married much sweet. Like, I love it was just cool. Always see those little seeds, and they didn't start turning around and starting to sprout a little bit of this little bit of effect on, like, how somebody's life is going in a certain direction that you can shift it.

Tyler Finn 

Talk to me a little bit about the transition from from pro sports to whether we call it corporate America or the job that puts you in a chair that you're sitting in right now right talk to me a little bit about that, and also how you found your way to to legal tech. I can't imagine that there's that strong of although maybe you're creating it in NFL to legal tech pipeline.

Emmanuel Smith 

There's something that's funny. So while you're playing the NFL, most people are so like, when you're transitioning out, you're like, mad device sales, because a lot happens going to real estate that you hear about, tops. But I'm like, I'm going made the mindset. That's what I was doing. I know what I'm doing. I'm done. This is around books. Everybody's all he talked about. And then I actually had a my wife's college teammates, Mom reached out to me. I was like, Hey, are you doing anything? And I was like, Well, I have to get some time, so I'm always open to opportunities that was recovering from my injury. So I had six to eight months of injury selling. So yeah, I got a lot of time. And so, Willow, what are you doing? I took part time. I was like, ma'am, opportunities come you have dollars. You will at least open them, at least hear about because I think every opportunity in my has led me to where I'm at now, like a handshake. Never know what one handshake can do to open that door for you to be able to impact you where you want to go. So like, Yeah, I'm always open. I'm always here. So sit down. And it was a company called justice Vietnam, of them today, and still talk to a lot of same people there, Omar Adam, and they're like, hey, RP and di type work. I was like, I don't know what RFP is at all. Never heard of our di is because it was kind of going around, dude. All right. All right. Cool. I was like, my mom's like, my color, the playbook, I can learn any, any system, any tool, after this I put them. So, alright, cool. Let's do it. So I go, and I'm actually at just about a year, I'm actually, I love it. There's such a great culture, very great fit. And had a lot of fun going to the clock. Dan wolf ACC was making my way around the legal industry. And I first remember I came into legal, I was like, oh, man, did I really decide to come in legal? Was like, everybody's gonna be suit and tied up with the briefcases, and it's just, like, just headed down. I just grinded. I'm like, man. I don't know if my personality is a fitness in this environment, but start making my way around the comfort scene, like actually getting no people. And I was like, You know what? This legal community right here? This is my this is my people. I fit in here. Really, not, yeah. So I actually, really loved it. Then I got healthy again, so I left just as big to go play an exit, separate for a year. Doesn't have a lot of fun. It was so much fun. Was having a chance to go back and play in AFL, but end up tearing my Achilles, so in that afternoon. All right, this is now, like the true pivot. Hey, what am I gonna do? Like, am I gonna stay legal? I go try something else. And so I ended up shadowing a couple med surgeon or surgeons, and they were doing brain surgery and spine surgery freaking fascinating. Like, to see somebody's brain and they're still living. I'm like, Whoa, no, but then see what is fine. Opening like. So it was shadow I had tonight, and I enjoyed the perspective. But I was like, Man, I don't think I could stand an operator for 10 hours, though, but that's a long time to be in hospital. Like I maybe that's not for me. I and I it was cool, but couldn't see myself doing that so that I had some the power of networking, man. And I had some friends that I met early on when I was in legal. They're like, hey, my company's actually hiring she go, go apply for it. I'm like, Alright, yeah, art and a lawyer apply, and it cracked me up. So I go apply. He told me to apply for my name, put his name in for me. He was boys Tony's his name. I love her there too. I don't get the job. And then, hey, you don't have another experience. And I'm like, granted, I get that right? It was a sales role. So like, I think sales tomorrow, like, if somebody has the soft skills, you can learn everything else by that. I was like, I don't know how to talk to people. I know how to design pain points. Like that was very natural for me, but I was like, the tool. I did go to law school. I got the law background. I saw my dad being a cop, right? So I was like, I don't know what's bad advice. I could learn, and I would to learn to be studious, but if i Hey, lot of experience. So I was like, Man, my resume is, like, my last six years of experience has been playing football you probably watched on TV. Like, I'm not gonna have any sales experience, right? Like, I was like it's like, how do you get a credit card? I can't even get the credit start, right? So my hair is like, this is, oh my goodness. So I called back. So hey, think of the job, put your name out there for should just open that door. So I go out. We'll figure it out later. And I get a call back into a month later, and he was like, they don't call you back. Okay, the callback month later. You're like, Hey, are you still looking I'm like, Yeah, I open for a job so, but it's like, hey, we can't put you in outside sales just yet, because you have no experience. You gotta go to inside sales route. And I was like, okay, you know what? If I keep I had no issue putting the work down there in it myself. I earn what I'm supposed to do, like I want to be moved out. And it was my first time seeing corporate America on that side of the spectrum. Um, I'm doing really well. Their guy said I was gonna do they let, oh, the whole inside sales team. Like, Oh, wow. You gonna call, like, on Monday, a normal Monday call, we hop on. It's like, Hey, you guys no longer have a job. It was like, insurance stuff at midnight. I'm like, Man, this is brutal. I'm like, we decided to ask, like, I told them I've been cut, fired more time than I've had a job. Hey, you gotta go play Go home, which was like, in 24 hours, we'll figure it out. I was used to, like, the unstability just playing professional sports. But I got cool off, like, this supposed to be stable. I'm like, This is not stable. That happened. I was like, Wow, it really opened my eyes. Like, at some places they do see you as a number, right? And there's like, you have no control over what that is. I looked but in that season, I was like, Cool. I'm gonna reach out to the same people inside sales team. And I just know, hey, there you have any help. Let us know. Let us stay in touch. Like I believe in steel, relationship and connection, and so I'm not gonna plug about probably three months. Feel like I'm not taking another job, but I know it's the right fit for me, but I'm not fortunate. I'm gonna trust the man upstairs, around where I need to be in my season of life. And I had another friend, Jason Smith, who's my brother from another mother, so until, you know we are related,

Tyler Finn 

He's a good dude. He's a very good dude.

Emmanuel Smith

Yeah, he actually reached out to me, and he was like, Hey, you go talk to Lauren at Qualitas. Great, great somebody for you to learn from there. They're looking to hire. All right, I trusted Jason. I mean some outside of being a cowboy saying, you know, but I love the death, because, all right, cool. You said that. I trust you, and I always have somebody I think it's cool, another fine thread in my life, I've always had somebody who was looking farther ahead of me, who had different perspective, that gave me little nudges to go in the right direction, to leave where I'm trying to get to in my life. Because otherwise I never would have known to reach out to any of these people or part of any of these jobs, because that I just never knew about these things. He reached out to me and told me, like, hey, go talk to the over there and see if it makes a good fit. And I love the interview process. And it was one of those things, I'm like, surreal. I remember talking my wife about it. I was like, one of the asked about my wife. I was like, hey, is this? This is I never heard of that in the interview questions, but that told me about the values that they had. Was it was important to them, right? That was really, really cool. So we finished going through the interview process, I'm like, this is actually a company that I can see myself really enjoying being at, right? And like their process, how they talk to people, what they want to be able to do, or they want to help people, was it aligns a lot how I operate, like I said, I'm in Yes, during the day. Now, I enjoy sales lessons very talking to people, how that just competitive side of it, but also I see everybody I talked to like a future teammate, right? So for me, it's like, I'm not gonna try to push somebody to buy something, because not going to benefit them right now, right? Because I'm like, I'm going to do that. You'll turn around and look at me as like, it's four for one, and you make me fumble the ball, right? All right? This is, this is not what I want you to look at the other Hey, this guy actually helped me out. And what he told me actually, this is what I needed, right? And if it's not, if I know somebody else, I were like, Hey, go talk to these people. I found what center and refer about, because I want to help people, and I want them to understand, like, I see you as an equal to me, in terms of, like, we're business partners, business stature, but also like, as a human right. I'm not going to try to sabotage you and your job, what you're doing your lives, to immediately get me some success. Remember, I really, I really fail at that point, right? Yes. So a lot of times like, so how do we go about it was super cool because I was like, in that relationship, you talk to people and see if there's a need, there's a need that we can solve, then yes, we will show that. But if it's not a need that we can't solve, don't try to push and hammer them to go do something that's not gonna benefit them. So at the end of the day, we're in business to help people. And yes, that was so refreshing, because most times in sales is like, I don't care. You need to get it done, but I even don't need to still push it like, is as close as you can. And sometimes that contain relationships, right? And for me, that's not, that's not how, right? I took a lot of time, and it's funny, I read up people on LinkedIn. My things like, Hey, thank you for connecting with me. But I want to learn about your story, your journey. Like, for it as people get to know more. Now it's like, it's a general, like, curiosity. I want to know what your story is, like, your journey, because, like, I'll share some mind as well. But like, I get to pull nuggets from everybody else, like, Hey, okay, this is what you got faced with, how you struggle and how you overcame it. Now I could figure out when I figure out when I do come to that point in my life, or sometime my first career, I know kind of how to go about that, because I talked to people who went through similar things so super happy without landing with Qualitas near their certified women owned Consulting Group, which I think is super easy focus on a couple things, really, three things, CLM, Elm and change management. I think to me, that was huge because, like, I've been around a lot of contracts, and my agent read, and I didn't read, you understand half the jargon, but now I'm getting to understand being in the legal side. Now, I think it's cool to see like change management, too. I think change management like, one of the things that lot of people, our company, organizations, struggle with is getting by. Yes, it's same in sports. You get a new a new coach coming to a team. He brings his own people and kicks out the old writers, like how you create, buy in and get that that know that, combined with that culture to be a fit for what you're trying to take the company to. So a lot of times, being able to have being able to have that perspective of pro sports, figure out how, I mean, I've been on some good teams who want Super Bowls, or I've been on some pretty bad some good coaches, some bad cultures, but seeing like, how we can take those same cultures, the same thing that we talked about, like, my motto the year I want Super Bowls be great. That was the motto for the whole year. And yours like, hey, just be great. That's all we focus on. You be great, but at your role, at your Pacific job, make sure you do the best you can. That was a simple model, right? But the whole team all into that. And now at that year, we took it off Super Bowl, right? So like, how can you take these same little finite nuggets that people watching sports and get amazed by, that I could take and pivot into corporate America that somebody else can still drive and create a culture that actually goes the lens in a job.

Tyler Finn 

Absolutely. What do you think? I mean, I totally agree with your point about legal especially being very relationship driven. What do you think you like about working in legal tech? What excites you about that?

Emmanuel Smith  

Oh, what excite? One is it’s interesting because it’s not that I didn’t know anything anything about right? So it challenges me to, like, figure out how to learn about it, how, like, I can make it make sense to me, time of them. So, like, that's a challenge in itself, but just for that, you should always be a learner in life. Yeah. Second thing about is, like, I really enjoy community a guy rocks like, it's sort of the best communities I've been able to be a part of in my young life. I'm not no this person being able to be a part of because, like, the people here, man, like, they really, like, they really do care. Like, hey. Like, I want to share with you. I mean, how can I help you along your journey? Right? Like, isn't everybody I've talked to in legal so far. Nobody has ever been, like, closed off, shut door and face, but hey, nah, I won't talk to you. All right? I'm popping in sales, right? You and give it grace. Like, hey, you might be having a rough day today. I get it right. Like, so you see him in person. They're like, Hey, I actually owe you a reply. We need to talk. I'm like, Oh man, I feel like I blush. I'm like, it's hard to make me blush in dark so, like, they actually remember, they think about those things. They want to help you out. So I love that, and it's one of the coolest things about to do our time. Like, I want more professional athletes who have come into legal, the right ones? Not, yeah, right? Like, I want the good fits that come into legal. It's an environment that, like, a lot of fun is fast paced around the people, but you have a lot of impact, like, on a huge scale, like in different companies, organizations, but also, like, immediately what you're doing, and I think it's one of the coolest things you can be able to do is impact other people. And people in legal impacted me like no other. And I don't even know it's like, man, you said, essentially we had a conference and we hit it off, and it's like, led to a podcast, right? It's like, yes, it's like, it's just like, people, this is like, they have a servant part, right? And it's just cool to be a part of a community like that.

Tyler Finn 

That's a big part of this. I think, I think a big part is, is trying to give back and trying to create opportunities for for folks to learn from, from each other. Emmanuel, I've got some closing questions for you that I like to ask my guests. Yeah, I think the first one maybe you've sort of answered it, but what's your favorite part of your current day to day?

Emmanuel Smith 

Oh man, current day to day, favorite part! the flexibility and the emotional stability you have to have because you in sales, I think, also the any job. But right now it says that you'll have somebody. I think it's going great. And as you know, illegal, it has to touch about 17 people's hands. Going really good. I'm happy. Like, hey Luther doing clothes, and then hey, sudden, sorry, change. We got to put some hole in this. It's like, you get the emotional hot. Like, yes, I'm excited. And it's like, I don't know, we're back at the bottom. It goes back to that mental game in sports to like, have you got to be emotional? Have that most ability to kind of juggle the highs and lows in sports that not made a roller coaster will kick your butt. You probably get sea stars and just stick in your stomach. Is that thing happens in our day jobs. I actually enjoy that part, because it still gets that kind of competitive nature feel for sports, yes, and the flexibility I'm saying, like you, you can work anywhere everywhere, but also, like, you can get a lot of things done and still be able to go and, like, live your life as well, which I think it's super duper cool. But also, like, community. I have people ever come to my city, let me know. Like, let's hang out. I'm like, if you ever come to my city, let me know. Like, you know the cheesecake was like, let me know. Is this cool? How many people open doors like, hey, whoever in the city, let me know. Like, let's catch up. Army's like, Man, that is so unique, because it's like, for me in football, a lot of my friends were, were friends, because we're all on the same team, around the same same, same player, right? But a lot of them, we leave, everybody just goes God knows where across the country. So like, man, so sometimes it's hard to kind of stay in touch. So having a community like, here in legal, like, I know if I go somewhere and somebody's very legal, I reach out to like, hey, yeah, let's go better. To this, which is ketchup. It's like, it helps, it helps kind of a lot of the work. And this, it makes it worse, because the relationships are that much more stronger.

Tyler Finn 

Dinners on me, the next time you're in New York City. Okay, next one for you. I think this one's kind of funny. Do you have a professional pet peeve?

Emmanuel Smith 

Oh, man, dude, yes. It might be  a lot of people's pet peeve, but ghosting the hashtag ghostly, to me is, like, just wrong, being a woman at the end of the day, we're all grown up. So you can, like, just tell somebody though, yeah, but it's like, the easiest things I have to do that, like, someone like, hey, that's just, I'm like, No. Thank you for the update. Like, I really appreciate that. This lets me know. Like, I don't you tell me no, so I don't have to. I won't keep reaching out to you. I would love to stay in touch. But, like, no, no. Well, yeah, people just like, I don't say anything. Eventually he'll, like, disappear. I'm kind of stubborn, so much I walk the line like, hey, every trouble. I was like, Hey, how you doing? I'm back up there. Okay, just tell me, no one to just give your answer, right? I think that's like, this is cool. People who do today that's our biggest pet peeve. Like, people just ghost you and I'm like, Mayor, like, that's like, the worst you show up on a date. My date doesn't even come. I was like, how do you, like, been having something wrong with Breath? Stand with my dress. Like, because, like, the same thing. It's like, I want people, like, professional like, hey. Like, no, my interested. Perfectly. Fine. Thank you. All right. Like, we should be able to handle that with a grain of salt, just keep pushing our day about but that's not the case. Now, I also understand, like they probably get hit 1000 times too, right? It's not just their fault. They're probably getting blown up and they're annoyed. Understand that by I saw people kind of just being, feel to be authentic. Just be you. That's my bad you beat you authentic. Yep, I think that then that allows activation to happen and people to actually talk about that. And I think that's the coolest thing about it, and I enjoy that. So that's my biggest step. People just be authentic and be like, Hey, I'm not ghost here. No, right now the time. Know what I thank you, ma'am. And I think it's the culture today. I think ghosting is like a cool thing. Like social media makes it seems cool. They're showing people I'm gonna go be there, right? It's like, oh, goodness gracious. So, but that's not my biggest thing. I go all about that all day long ago.

Tyler Finn

I like that, and sales has done an easy job. I think, I think everyone starts to realize that as soon as they start to work with sellers. Do you have a book that you'd recommend to our listeners? And I mean, this could be really anything. This could be a leadership, something that's helped you in your personal life, just something that you've read recently for fun?

Emmanuel Smith 

Oh, I can give you books on every different season of my life that I went through. One of my favorite books in terms of just telling leadership, or is like personal development. There's two of them, what is called Don't eat the marshmallow. Yet, funny ways. I love the president of that book about delayed gratification, right? Because I think today's society, we live in a microwave society. Well, 30, right, right? And about how we realize, like, man, you probably gotta wait there three, four minutes before that popcorn is actually ready. Don't make the marshmallow for my one of my favorite books. And so I like story books. Awesome buddy alone. Their journey is like understanding things back on school there. The next one is called Three Feet From Gold. And that one, that one, I actually enjoy, because it's about the power of networking, and you never know who you can be to open the door for you are just how far away you are from the dream that you want to chase. So that's definitely my two favorite books from professional development side, if you're looking at it for men, just like how I like develop in their self. There is a book that I read. Give me a second I'm liking now and I'm talking about it.

Tyler Finn  

We can add the we can add the link to the show notes.

Emmanuel Smith 

I'll figure it out a little bit, if I'll come back to me later, but then, kind of like as a couple, there's one called for him only, for her only. I think it's really understand just how it makes you right, especially when you're in that relationship. So those, yeah, I really enjoy that you'll see me talk a lot about

Tyler Finn 

my last question for you, and I don't know, take this how you how you'd like to, you know, usually I ask people to look back on when they were a young lawyer, getting started, but you could take this as like, getting started as a professional football player, or even just look A few years back to getting started in corporate America. One thing that you know now that you wish that you'd known back then, oh, man,

Emmanuel Smith 

one thing I wish I knew back then, um, that there's no failure in life. Looking back at it, I think every thing that you go through, every fail, every adversity, is a lesson right for you to learn and grow from. And that, to me, was one of the coolest things. I heard these I watched him talk about this at one of his graduation speeches. He's like, people don't remember the strikeouts, they remember the home runs, right? So you're all for but have a lot of fun doing it, but don't get to the point where it's so caught up there it like crushes you, because you're gonna fail at something in life, right? Like it's inevitable. And like, No, I'm looking back now, like, knowing okay, I didn't fail for my journey. There's just less of me to learn myself next, I think is absolutely huge. And then another thing is like the true power of relationships and the impact you can have on when you give them hope. Because hopefully, one of the coolest things that I've been able to have inspired in me, um, just from somebody taking this morning, actually a mentor of mine, that way, just looking back on all the time that we, he spent with me, and a lot of times like he would just instill Open me, and the hope to go out, to believe for more, the hope that I can go do more, and that hope, really that allowed me to continue to push forward even when I was in dark season in my life. So I think that I want people all I have assured that sometimes it's hope dealer, because I want people to have hope, because I believe that when you have hope, you'll Dream Big, you'll be cheap, going about the things you're really passionate about and you you won't lose yourself, right? And I think a lot of people, Hey, have lost a lot of hope, and just like they're all good as we get older, it's like that, dreams too foolish. Now, come on, you're old, right? People buying cheek down you and your dreams, right? It's like, I don't think any dream should ever die, right? Like we know when we ever our time is the leaders, place of of the world on Earth, we all gonna be on our death days. And I think the one thing that we all look up and say, it's like, I don't want to say, I wish I had the Miss. I wish I pursued this. I would look at the risk. I want to be like, Man, I really went out and lived the life that I wanted to dream and aspire to, and I might have failed at it. Through that failure, I learned so much about how to go do other things, right? But I don't want people to let their dreams just sit there and die because they thought they got a chase, whatever the world is pushing the chase. So that's probably big for me, because, like, I think I am a unicorn because I'm like, I just, I want to taste it, breathe, live it. Have so much fun doing it, because I know the journey is gonna be so much worth before I get to your destination.

Tyler Finn 

What an inspiring way to station. This has been so positive and really uplifting for me. Thank you so much for joining me and helping me create this episode of the abstract Emanuel,

Emmanuel Smith  

thank you so much for inviting me on it. I'm excited, and I'll continue to watch more of your podcast too as well. So if you're out there, please join this mayor's podcast. He reached out to you.

Tyler Finn  

I appreciate the plug. To all of our listeners, thank you so much for tuning in and hope to see you next time.

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